I have a problem with sound dropouts. I thought it was calibration problem, but TCD-D8 cannot properly read the DATs it recorded itself. I read somewhere that felt pads can wear out, could it be the cause? Is there some instructions for cleaning or lubricating the mechanism? Can the cassette be loaded in 'hold' mode? I remember trying to force it load once. edit2: still problems thanks.
There's a long thread on Audio Karma but it's for the component deck, maybe there's something in there that can help you. https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/servicing-a-sony-dat-machine-pictorial.184212/
thanks. after reading some (its a long thread), I've tried cleaning the pinch roller (with 70% ethanole). It seems to work much better now, I've recorded one song and it had only one 'glitch'. now I see that alcohol is not reccomended but 'little bit of dish soap and water'. anyway, are pinch rollers somewhat standard and can they be bought nowadays and easily replaced?
Yes and no, it depends on the make and model. Try FixYourAudio, they sponsor this website https://fixyouraudio.com/ I use isopropyl alcohol (IPA) on just about everything for cleaning. The closer to 100% means there's less water, which is best, water may cause small parts to rust. Stay away from harder or clear plastics, it might put a haze coating on them.
@orange Seems I didn't get notifications for the thread updates. In regard to the pinch roller, your best bet is to clean it very well. You will not find a replacement for these DAT pinch rollers unfrotunately. I do hope that Marian will do some replacement rubber for these in the future, but there is no guarantee. You can also use Rubber Renue on the roller for best results, a bottle of that can be bought on ebay. Rollers on DAT/DDS are very similar, however there are a few types out there and they're not exactly the same. For referece, there is a company in Romania which restores these rollers by putting new rubber on them and eventually replace the bearings if necessary (ProAudio Revival), but they are pretty expensive. My recommendation is to clean the roller thouroughly and the capstan. On the TCD-D8, there is an auto-cleaning pad for the drum, so that shouldn't be very dirty. The cleaning pad can be removed and cleaned, but the process is pretty involved and I don't recommend doing it. Compared to the TCD-D7 (which does not have the auto-cleaning), manually cleaning the drum on the D8 did not catch much dirt at all in units I have repaired. Not to mention there is an air gap between rotating part of drum and fixed part, so it is very easy to break the heads on these. If ever want to clean the drum, do it with a piece of paper immersed in IPA, and rotate the drum counterclockwise while lightly pressing the paper on the drum.
I can't remember if 8mm and DAT are the same tape case, Longman, are they interchangable? The tape media in the following items works great at cleaning heads, if you can find the trichlorotrifluoroethane bottle, NOS, it will clean like crazy, just like new. I used to do head wear test of 8mm (for data) and VHS machines. The heads don't really wear, it's more shed from the tape that's the issue, especially with data tapes. https://www.ebay.com/itm/304050027925?epid=1124520282&hash=item46cacb3d95:g:rz8AAOSwHctg29Pd
@Mister X DAT uses tape similar to Compact Cassette (4mm). Tape is metal, but with different magnetic properties than TYPE IV tapes and also varies from DAT to DDS ones. DDS1 and DDS2 are fully compatible with DAT, while DDS3 and DD4 are different (will work, but with higher error rates and potential dropouts). There are some cleaning cassettes for DAT, which use chrome tape, but I haven't seen those that clean chemically. I personally wouldn't use such a tape even if existed on these TCD-D7/D8 because of the large air gap: tape can easily get caught in there, destroying the heads.
The age of the "vintage cleaning tape" might be a concern, our testing was to take photos with a clean head, run tape through for a couple weeks, take more photos. Run a cleaning cartridge through and take another set of photos. This would be sent on to the buyer, usually 3M and would show how much shred was cleaned off the heads and any wear. Trichlorotrifluoroethane was the cleaning fluid dripped on the cleaning tape before putting into the machine. It also works great on foam swabs directly on the heads but was banned in most countries in the late 90's. I never saw cleaning tape shred on the heads, I could see where cheaper brands might leave fibers. My testing was for 8mm data cartridges, these were very common for computer nightly back-ups, before large cheap hard drives took over in the mid-2000's. We had some DAT in the lab but I never got to play around with it, they were both very similar, just like larger VHS.
I forgot about this thread, hope this helps! https://stereo2go.com/forums/threads/the-holy-grail-of-dat-repairs-by-a-sony-engineer.3400/ and another: https://stereo2go.com/forums/threads/sony-dat-walkman-repair-video.2737/
The video in the first link is the absolute reference for these small DAT walkmans. The guy who made the video worked at SONY and knows every single common problem these devices have. The main one is lubrication, that's essential. I might add that the oil type is extremely important (I use watch oil, it's also what he recommends), but also the quantity: use as little oil as possible, especially on the gearbox. Too much oil will increase friction, hence increasing backtension. This will cause the typical "blank" message on display when in FF, even when tape is not blank. The video is hours long, but it's worth watching for everyone interested in repairing those walkmans. Last, but not least, I want to mention that exactly because the need of servicing, don't pay a high price on these TCD-D3/D7/D8 to sellers pretending the unit is working just fine. Ask for a fast forward test, it should do it without displaying the message "blank". The fact that it plays is not that relevant.
I've been burned on a lot of vintage equipment that works great for 20 minutes or so then, boom, the magic dust escapes. A lot of the newcomers to the hobby are finding that most equipment needs some work and the more complicated high-end models might cost hundreds of dollars to fix, if it's even possible.
Roger that. I have three TCD-D8's, two bought new, one parts. I have all the ancillaries for it and I'd like to have ONE working unit.
I've been watching electronic repair videos on YouTube while working on my tractor, talk about small spaces and large wrenches. Vintage Audio Addict has some great videos and he's always positive about the process. His big deal is replace all capacitors whether they work or don't. He also love the Hakko FR301 solder sucker, this is on my Christmas List this year! https://www.amazon.com/American-HAK...07BFVFMS9/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8 Back in my media tape cleaning days I used to get VHS heads really dirty and then clean them up. The tape would flake off and get everywhere in the tape transport, make sure you clean it up good. Are the issue sonics or mechanical?
You should be able to make at least one working unit from all the 3 that you have, possibly even 2 of them. Main issue with this unit is lubrication: the gearbox, table reels and all the driving gears (those that go from the capstan motor to the mech) need to rotate perfectly smooth, without any added friction. If you have never repaired this unit before it might look like they turn ok even when there is increased friction. The table reels need to have a bit of inertia when lubricated correctly: you spin them fast with your finger (gearbox removed), they should not stop immediately (if they do there's too much friction). It is actually better to clean and leave the shafts dry (as the POM material is slippery) than put too much oil, the wrong kind of oil (too thick) or grease. I only use watch oil for this and in VERY low quantities (just a very thin film is more than enough). Do not attempt to adjust the backtension if you don't have a cassette designed for that to actually measure it ! Also do not attempt to adjust any of the trimpots in the electronics (DPG adjustment and adjustments in the RF block) ! What you will find in this thread (the video itself) offers all the information you need to repair this device properly: https://stereo2go.com/forums/threads/the-holy-grail-of-dat-repairs-by-a-sony-engineer.3400/ Yes it is almost 5 hours of watching, but you really need to do that if you want to have a clear picture in your mind of all of the inner workings of the TCD-D7/D7, understand why they fail and how to correctly service them. Good luck with your repair(s) ! EDIT: In regard to cleaning the head drum, the TCD-D8 has an automatic cleaning feature on it. You should clean it once when you do the service and also clean the felt pad in the auto-cleaning mechanism, but then it's not really a concern. The automatic cleaning should be left in place as it uses good quality felt pad which does NOT disintegrate as it is the case in some other units (be it VHS, DDS). The TCD-D7 does not have an automatic cleaning feature, but DAT tapes in general don't leave that much residue and it's not a problem in the vast majority of the cases. You should only clean it when it is serviced. As for cleaning, use a piece of writing paper immersed in IPA: put it on the drum and rotate the drum against the paper. Do not use cotton swabs as you are likely to chip the very fragile heads ! You should start with mechanism re-lubrication first, before assuming anything. Unless there's an electronic problem like the unit does not power on at all.
Thanks for those links and the advice, Mister X and Valentin! The startup back tension loop appears to be the only symptom and everything I can see appears to be clean. However, just from the beginning of the video having been watched, I suspect there are hardened grease issues with which to contend. Thanks, again!
We always had foam swabs with the long handles! These guys used to make some nice cleaning fluid, which is now banned everywhere. You can still find the kits on Ebay, the fluid is something like Trifloralxxxxx and it cleans really nicely. When the box says they subject the heads to 50 years worth of wear, I used to do some of that testing and then cleaning. Pieces of tape on everything, kind of like saw dust all over a wood mill, like Valentin said you have to clean it really well. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Geneva-Video-Tape-Videotape-video-head-cleaner-PF-350-/122803017092
Thanks for the link! I think I have some of the same stuff. If it's bad for the environment, my experience has been that it works 100% better than whatever the next best thing we've been forced to endure does. Like you, I'm careful with chemicals, but in general, I think there's a lot of superstition about how bad (even for heads and rubber, depending on the their formulation) some of them are. If they're potent and the circumstances demand their use, then I tend to use them VERY quickly and don't let anything sit long enough to overreact. Some rubber melts if you look at it wrong, especially cheap belts/rollers from parts unknown.
about cleaning the head with IPA, could I just pour IPA and then use compressed air? I'm worried I could damaged it, besides it needs removing the door...
Don't just pour IPA onto the head drum as there is a risk it can get into the bearing. Would not use compressed air either, the head chips are very fragile. If you're worried you can damage it, simply don't clean it ! The TCD-D8 has an automatic cleaning system which works perfectly fine. Even on the TCD-D7, there's not as much dirt as one would expect because DAT tapes use a metal formulation which doesn't leave much oxide. If one experiences problems with TCD-D7/D8, head clogged with oxide are most likely not the cause of your problems, so don't hope for a magic solution ! These units need a complete overhaul to work right. As a conclusion, if one wants to clean the correct way to do it is the following: - take a piece of paper and soak it in IPA; - put the paper against the head and press gently; - rotate the head counterclockwise a couple of turns; You should be able to feel the heads passing on the paper with our finger. For cleaning the top cover with LCD needs to be taken out and also the carriage mechanism. Also I do NOT recommend using cleaning tapes.
I think my D8's issue is a tape transport, frozen/sluggish lubricant issue. Not meaning to hijack the thread, but it is it's own type of "glitch". I'm looking for U.S. options for an overhaul. I have two parts machines and one designated "restoration-worthy" machine (it might be the other way around, it's been a very long time since I got the older ones out of storage) and I'd like to have ONE machine for my personal audio collection that is "NM/functional". The remainder I'd probably sell when the time's right.
